chalkosis was on xaivers wall and was all like "yo can you ban marc dude" because of marc doing something before I guess, then xaiver was like "why" and chalk posted some thread links and xaiver just sort of blocked him
jizo any day.
Pizza(with talents) is still pretty close though, I have them both at a high level(pizza is considerably higher) but jizo still shines a lot more since you can basically summon one out of thin air and quickly overwhelm an enemy with constant anti-black attacks since there will be so many more jizo's than pizza.(not to mention their spammable DPS is always much higher)
Apparently other people can disable threads on my wall for some reason and I didn't realize until I'd written this entire response for you and wanted to give it to you, so here ya go:
I'd much rather spend the +6k cash on more dps units or some sanzo/icats than a safeguard that really isn't necessary. I'm not asking for specific stages so that I can act like those are the only stages he's usable on, hopefully I can avoid seeming that disingenuous. I just can't think of any stages that he carries or is a massive help in where the exact same role can't be accomplished by roe/octo or some random non-uber that carries the stage.
You can count np if you want to, but I wasn't. You can't in good faith claim that you don't know where my idea that strengthen keiji had less dps came from, that's all.
Wait, do you consider survivability a spectrum with suicidal just being a point on the low survivability side? If so, then that's not what I was discussing. If by suicidal you do indeed mean not having backswing and speedily clipping forward whenever enemies get kbed, then I disagree. Lil valk's speed compared to lege's is significantly greater, combine that with his less tba and more backswing, he's most definitely less suicidal than lil valk. Additionally, since lege has 3 more kbs than she does, if he acts suicidally it doesn't harm him overall near as much as it harms lil valk. Octo does indeed lower the niche value of wave immune ubers, but not nearly to the extent of them being meaningless like you claim. 00 basically instantly wins every wave stage with ms, and you can bring whatever supports you want, due to octo's range he can't accomplish the same feat. Ofc there's also a whole load of wave stages with supports (ex: ogre Island) like you mention later that octo can't just shut down, furthering lege's use.
LOL no, this is the advantage of wave immune dps over non-wave immune for wave stages. Octo dies, and then if your dps isn't immune then it nearly instantly dies to the waves, but lege can actually hold on and continue doing stuff. If you don't believe me, try like anubis and windy with octo on tough wave stages and see who does better. It may be hard to find tough enough stages to tell since iirc you're ultramaxed, but you could make something work. Wave blockers can't completely disregard the need for wave immunes, they would need to carry every wave stage for that to work. 00 and muu can accomplish that, machine and octo (the only one relevant here) can't. You admit this when you bring up f30, do you honestly believe that octo carries every other wave stage? I'm seriously asking. Also, please stop arguing from uber replacability with 00, you could not be doing it but it sounds like you are.
You're flip-flopping on your definition of role here in order to create a distincton between the differences of melee/range tank and wave immune/blocker. The role of any variant of tank, including ms, is to prevent the enemies from advancing and harming the dps by absorbing attacks, if the tank-type units you have are sufficient in holding back the enemies, any more (such as Babel being a safe guard) is an unnecessary redundancy and a waste of a slot. Meanwhile the role of anti-wave units with immune and blocker is to counter wave enemies to prevent the special wave ability from slaughtering you. However, in your comparison you instead consider the different ways in which these roles can be performed for tanks, as either melee or ranged (or ms), but you failed to distinguish the differences in which wave immune vs blocker are applied. Purely looking at the effect of the ability, yes waveblocker is directly superior to wave immune, however when we actually look at real units in the game, this doesn't hold up. The point of every waveblocker is to act as a tank that allows ms to be used against wave enemies, meanwhile the role of a wave immune is to be a dps (or cc) unit that can deal with wave enemies.
You believe that mushi has a very likely chance of surviving 2.5x as long as lege does in battle? Lol ok, I'll be assuming mushi tf so that your argument can have a shred of possibility to be correct. For stats, mushi has 10k less hp than lege, ~40k vs ~50k, lege has 5 kbs to mushi's 3, mushi has 100 more range, and lege has 2.55x the dps. I know you value the survivability advantage dps provides very highly from out arguments over Jizo, so that's a pretty excellent advantage for lege. All that mushi possibly has going for him is that 100 range and less speed (although lege isn't very likely to suicide anyway). I'll just leave you the numbers and see if you can manage to justify mushi having 2.5x the survivability of lege, kek. Mushi being useful on stages that lege isn't useful in doesn't affect lege's niche value in the slightest, don't forget what we're actually arguing about (hint, it's not lege vs mushi).
The whole point of being a rusher isn't contingent on cd, if that's what you're arguing for. The base purpose of a rusher is to be able to deal with enemies that outrange it due to speed/ld, as well as speedrun/cheese capability. I have no problem with this first sentence unless you wanna argue that lege doesn't fit being a rusher on the basis of cd, instead of affect on battle. Lege doesn't need to be truly good to not be the worst LR, so no problem. Babel has a meh role as a ranged tank that's sometimes helpful, and can also act as a C tier generalist with bad cd, Range, and animation but good hp. Lege isn't a failed rusher because he can't compare to high tier rushers like keiji and lil valk, that just means he isn't high tier. He's a solid meh, and that's enough.
Thats the thing, you use both. because sometimes, the cc you have isn't always enough, and one mistake causes them to all die, and then the enemies just rush foward to finish off everything else.
His survivalbility hurts him far worse than li'l valk, the main part being the 300 range. Li'l valk does indeed have less on certain stages and legeluga on others. But li'l valk's survivalbility isn't a big deal really and can be excused since she comes back immediately. Legeluga just stays dead until the 5th returning of jesus christ and the dinosaur's revival. If he acts suicidal it harms him FAR worse. ogre island is a terrible example as I've mentioned. Legelan doesn't do anything there, since once a wave kills all your meatshield he just dies. at least octopus cat can kinda protect just in case something does end up going wrong. Theres a chance he'll save you. Legeluga will only save himself. Which actually, lowers his use. and in other stages, octopus actually does a better job since he can protect everything and not just itself while it's left vulnerable. If it does die here and there that's ok since it comes right back, unlike legeluga. You couldn't possibly think legeluga is better for waves than octopus cat could you?
Comparing every single stat side by side and seeing who has more doesn't exactly work for survivalbility. Quality over quantity(as in the quality of WHAT those stats are instead of who has more stats that they're better in). 300 range and high speed meaning he'll clip and lower it by a little be lower means he's more likely to rush to his own demise. Also, legeluga doesn't actually do the same thing as kasa jizo. It only worked in kasa jizo's favor since all his were taken to the extreme. his stacked DPS is ridiculous against black and angels. Legeluga has good DPS and tba but not enough to constantly knock enemies back. He also can't be spammed so you'll never get an constantly attacking swarm of him, enemies can push in less than 3.5 seconds. Mushi being useful on every stage legeluga lower's the impressiveness of his wave immunity. Heck musashi lowers the value of most wave immune ubers by even a little since now we actually have a no gacha immune to wave backliner.
CD is a very important part of being a rusher, CD greatly affects their effect on the field if you only get to use it once or twice vs others who can get used like 3-4 times in the same amount of time. Babel's role can indeed be very helpful. Not to mention he doesn't even have to be a tank to be helpful, 7k DPS is good regardless. He fails since he misses one of the key factors of being a rusher. For your DPS to actually be worth it, you're not winning the stage using a rusher once unless it's well timed(which isn't even the type of rusher legeluga is) or unless the stage is already pretty easy. Babel is solid, acting as both an attacker and a guard for when enemies push which they tend to do quite often even with CC. The difference between a ranged tank and a ranged rusher, ranged rushers pratically play the game solo. Just meatshield a bit and use them. Ranged tanks actually work together with the rest of the cats you have. Meaning, their impact on a stage compliments others and gets complimented by others. So whether or not he's good is more than just his stats alone. He does have a ridiculously high amount of Hp, highest health in game against a trait by far. While enemies attack him you can restack the CC and attackers that were previously destroyed behind him. Safeguards are the difference between your stack getting destroyed and you just losing and your stack getting destroyed and you surviving. Necessary? Niether is legeluga. You can get by just fine without him, and if you start losing he still won't help much. Like I've said multiple times his damage and DPS can literally be replaced by several things yet you keep ignoring it.
It's not like any of this is directed at you, or even just a public statement. You basically did the equivilent to going to someone's mailbox, and then telling the person's who's mailbox you looked in that it was too much so they werent gonna read it.
I didnt get dhalsim there, F is for things that don't have any use at all. 0. and directly above that are mainly the ubers that werent spectacular and I never really used them because they were replaced.
oh yeah and chun li
theres quite a few ubers that didnt have a picture to rank them.